A wet mouldy timber frame can be a big problem during construction.

Far too many builders and homeowners ignore a wet mouldy timber frame during construction, and it can cause long term problems for the health of the occupant and the long-term durability of the home.

Learn how Cindy managed this in her project so it didn’t impact the health of her home.

Listen to the episode now.

Hello! This is Episode 342, and in it, I’m talking with HOME Method member, Cindy.

Cindy is a HOME Method member, and she’s also a designer and Thermal Performance Assessor, who has designed her own new home which is currently under construction.

Cindy was on the podcast about 5 months ago in Episodes 321 and Episode 322, giving us her first update on her project, and sharing her design phase and early construction experience.

She’s back to talk about some of the challenges that weather has brought for the construction process: in particular dealing with a wet timber frame that has grown mould, and needs to be remediated before the project continues.

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE NOW.

We’ve had a few members inside HOME Method navigating this challenge this year, as the weather has been wet for long periods of time in many parts of Australia, and that can wreak havoc on an exposed timber frame of a home.

Timber can absorb moisture and water, and then over time, with the right conditions, grow mould which impregnates in the timber itself.

The worst thing that can happen is that the frame is not allowed to dry out, or the mould is not remediated, and the home gets lined internally and externally regardless of its dampness or condition. 

This can be incredibly detrimental for the health of the occupants and the durability of the home long-term. And, unfortunately, it happens far too often in home construction.

So, I think you’ll find Cindy’s process of navigating this specific challenge on her project super informative.

Before we jump in, let me give you some timing for context.

Cindy joined HOME Method in October 2021. 

Our first conversation on the podcast that’s featured in Episodes 321 and Episode 322 happened in February 2024. 

Then, the conversation I’m sharing in this and the next episode happened 5 months later, in July 2024. 

At the time of talking in this chat, Cindy’s home is due to be finished in late 2024. 

Here’s Part 1 of my conversation with Cindy.

Now, let’s dive in!

This is the transcript of my conversation with Cindy about managing her wet mouldy timber frame and its remediation before construction continued, and what it meant for her project progress overall.

Amelia Lee
Well, Cindy, we have you back on the podcast. I’m super excited for you to be back. The last time we spoke was in February of 2024 and it’s now mid July of 2024, and so even though we’re only a few months on, obviously you’re in construction. And the last time we chatted, you were just at framing stage, and we endured a fairly wet summer. And the weather hasn’t really changed much on the Eastern seaboard. We’ve continued to have a lot more rain than we ordinarily have over this period. And so, I’m really keen to dive into with you what construction has been like, what it’s been like for you, both as somebody who’s gone through a lot of preparation and research for your project, and somebody who’s upskilling yourself professionally as well in the industry, and to talk through some of the unique and individual things that you’ve experienced on your project that I know also will have relevance to others in other locations, in terms of where you’ve seen hiccups and hurdles, and then what you’ve done to problem solve those and navigate those through.

So, I think it’s going to be really a helpful conversation for loads of people thinking about their construction process and navigating their construction process. And I think the first thing I’d love to dive into is your framing, and looking at your timber framing. I know from our interactions inside the HOME Method community that your frame was exposed to the weather through just simply those rain delays, and it wasn’t able to get to a point where it could be enclosed before we did have a lot of rain. And this is something that happens on a lot of construction sites around locations, is that they can sit exposed to the wet weather for some time. And there is a level of wet weather that timber frame can sustain, but then sometimes, as in your case, it takes on too much moisture, and then that becomes problematic. So, can you just talk us through what happened on your site? And then share with us how you then navigated what you were going to do to address what you were seeing and resolving the issues, and then how that’s continued on for you?

Cindy
Yeah, sure. And thank you so much for having me back. It’s great to continue chatting about where we’re at. So yeah, we’re in the middle of the construction phase now, I guess. And so yeah, our framing did definitely cop it over, especially autumn. I actually saw last night on the news, they had the top 10 areas that had the worst weather in autumn 2024 and yeah, Port Macquarie was number three.

Amelia Lee
Did you feel validated?

Cindy
Definitely. It was like, “Okay, well, yeah, that explains a lot.” But yeah, every time it rained, my heart would break. It was just devastating. So, essentially, what happened was we got our framing done up to the point that we were able to, but then we have suspended concrete for our external balconies at either end of the upper level frame. And the way that’s been engineered is it returns into the frame and forms part of the subfloor for the upper floor. So, we can’t finish the upper floor framing, and therefore put the roof on, and therefore cover up the house until all of that was done. So there was a number of delays in that engineering, and then there was weather delays. And it was just a perfect storm of a lot of things. There’s no one to blame for it. It just was a perfect storm of so many different elements. And yeah, no one was particularly happy about the result. What it meant was, yes, timber framing got saturated on a regular basis, particularly our yellow tongue flooring, unfortunately. 

So our yellow tongue flooring was exposed for six months. I think it can weather up to three months. But yeah, it got three months worse. So there’s quite a lot of that that’s getting pulled out and replaced. And in terms of the framing, there’s a number of the base plates, particularly downstairs, but also upstairs. That actually started growing mould from the inside of the timber, and it’s quite visible. So, it was really easy to see those parts and tag them to be replaced. Where it got challenging was deciding the other bits that needed to potentially be replaced. Because, as you know, when timber weathers, it goes black anyway. So how do you know what’s mould and what’s just acceptable weather? 

Framing and flooring on the top floor [SOURCE]

So I made a couple of calls to a few different building biologists, just to get their opinion on what we should do or how to approach it. And there was varying different opinions. It went from knock the whole thing down and start again, to sand everything back and do what you can. There’s lots of different methods. I know there’s other people in the HOME Method community that are experiencing these kind of things as well, and they’re trying different things. There’s dry ice spraying and all that kind of thing. And so, it really was a conversation between us and the builder about what made sense for us and what we were comfortable with, and he was really open to that, which was great, because I was so anxious about it all. We currently live in a rental that is experiencing mould problems that we can’t do anything about, and it is affecting our health. And I am particularly sensitive to most things, mould being one of them. And I just don’t want that in my home at all, as anyone doesn’t. 

And I’ve done quite a bit of research and a bit of training in healthy home materials and that kind of thing as well. So I’m aware of what it does, and I just want to avoid it at all costs. So yeah, pretty anxious about getting rid of it. So, our method that we decided on together was to… There’s essentially not a lot we could do until we could put the roof on, get it weatherproof, and let everything have a good chance to dry out, which is where we’re at now, and then go through it and test different sections that I wasn’t sure about for mould if it’s there. Tag the timbers that needed to be replaced. The apprentice has gone around and done a whole heap of sanding of timbers and things so it looks way better than it did. And, yeah, replacing of the yellow tongue flooring and stuff like that. And then once all of that’s done, we found a product that I’m really happy with, just to spray the rest of the timber with just to give it that extra level of protection and treatment for mould. So yeah, that’s what we decided on, and what we’re currently in the middle of doing.

Amelia Lee
Gotcha. And when you were testing it and running through like that, what did you actually do to test the timber for the mould and for moisture levels and figuring that out?

Cindy
Yeah, so I bought myself a moisture tester, which has been really fun. So,yeah, it’s just got these two little prongs on it, and I’m sticking it in timbers everywhere, and it beeps at me when it gets over 16%. So, that’s been really good, and it’s given me a level of confidence in where the timbers are at as well. They’ve dried out a lot better than I thought they would have. In the middle of March, when it was absolutely just getting drenched, I’d walk in there and I’d think there’s just no way that this is ever going to dry out. There’s no way this is ever going to be okay. But now that it’s had that chance to dry out, it is looking way better. And yeah, I think we’re down to about 14% for most of it, except for the bottom plates and the flooring. So that’s really given me the areas to target, which has been awesome. 

And then in terms of the mould testing, I’m actually still waiting for the do it yourself mould testing kits to arrive. And when they arrive, there’s a couple of different sections in the house that I want to test, just to see where they’re at. But, yeah, it’s quite cool. You just put tape over the bits that you are curious about, and then you put them in this little canister, and you stick them on your windowsill for a week or two and see what happens. So we’ve got the time to do that. We’re not going to close the walls up probably in the next month. But we’ve also agreed that before we close up any of the walls, that we’ll moisture test the whole frame again and moisture test all the flooring. Any of the yellow tongue flooring that’s not going to be replaced is getting sanded back so it’ll be all nice and level and fresh before we move on to the next phase.

Mould testing kit results show there’s presence of mould in the house [SOURCE]

Amelia Lee
And when you were chatting to your builder about it, were you anxious that the builder would be resistant? Or were you worried that he would play down the problem? Or he’d given you enough indication that this was something he already had his head wrapped around, and he was concerned about it as well? How did that relationship go? Because I know that there’s lots of homeowners that can see their timber sitting in moisture for a really long time, and we’ve had otherHOME Method members too, on a Friday, have gone to site, seen that black spots that they think are mould starting to form, and then worried about contacting the builder and meeting them on site on Monday if they’re going to get resistance to fixing this issue. What was your experience with your builder in that process?

Cindy
Yeah, he’s always been really open to talking about whatever I’m anxious about. And this was really the only thing that I’ve really had that level of anxiety about, and he definitely understood why. But he kept saying to me, “Well, there’s not much we can do until it dries out.” And back at that point, that wasn’t really giving me much comfort. In retrospect, I’m like, “Yeah, he knew what he was talking about.” But at that stage, because I hadn’t been through that process, I just couldn’t see that ever being a reality. And so, me being me, I documented everything and almost put my case together, just so that I knew that I’d done myself justice, and given it to him and said, “Look, this is what I’m concerned about. If we’re going to revisit it later on, at least I’ve captured it all, and I can stop thinking about it and banging on about it every time we meet.” So he was really receptive to that, and he understood why I was doing that. And as I say, we’re still going through the process now. And yeah, we’ll do another walk through with the timbers, and just spray paint all the things that we want replaced and that kind of thing, now that we’re at this stage. So yeah, he was definitely receptive, but also trying to encourage me to wait, which is not an easy thing to do.

Amelia Lee
Yeah. Very wise of you, though, to document all of that so that you had the records. I think that’s the challenging thing is, like we said before we jumped on, we last spoke in February, which is only a few months ago, and it feels like a really quick time, but then also quite a long time. And I find that you do, in the process of renovating or building, you lose perspective of time. Things feel like they’re forever, and then they can also feel like they happened last week. And so, if you’re not documenting and keeping records of dates and conversations and processes, then it can be so difficult to place when those things happened.

And I watch homeowners go, “Oh, well, that was when such and such had that soccer game, because I know that we were heading there…” Like, they’re anchoring it against other life events, which can be unreliable. So it’s a really good lesson. I love that you went to that. That was very wise to go, “Okay, well, I’m going to put it all on paper. I’m going to get my ducks in a row and my record straight.” And then that, of course, if anything had gone pear shaped, or he’d then shown resistance when it had dried out, you had that written record to be able to do something about it. Do you have any idea how he’s paying for all of these delays? Is he putting in an insurance claim, or anything like that?

Cindy
I’m not entirely sure. We did talk about it. There were some elements that were potentially covered by insurance, but other elements that weren’t. So, yeah, I’m not totally sure. And it really does depend. It’s the same as claiming on insurance for your house, it really depends on how much you’re claiming, as to whether or not it’s worth paying the excess and then potentially the rising costs next year.

One of the worst parts affected by the wet weather [SOURCE]

Amelia Lee
And additional premiums.

Cindy
Yeah, that’s right, going on from that. So, yeah, he’ll toss that around and work that out. But all of that kind of stuff was part of, I guess, the fixed part of our contract, so that we’ll just fall into the bucket of the framing and that kind of thing. And then we’ve got provisional items  outside of that that have some variations and things in them. So, yeah, not entirely sure, but it’s definitely been thought about.

Amelia Lee
Gotcha. And why are your external decks done in concrete? What was the rationale for that?

Cindy
That was a engineering decision. We did toss around doing it in timber. And in retrospect, I think we probably should have. It would have given our builder a lot more direct control over their construction and their timing to do that. But at the end of the day, the concrete is a lot more solid, provides better drainage, all that sort of stuff. So there’s pros and cons for both.

Amelia Lee
Yeah, there’s things you can do in concrete that you can’t do in timber. It creates a thinner profile as well. And as you say, you can definitely create better drainage with it and create a better solution in that regard. It’s an interesting observation on your part, and I imagine that the builder is going, “All right, in future projects, I’m really going to consider whether we do that because of the experience of the delays that have occurred.” Can we talk a bit about those delays in terms of how you’ve navigated the engineering? Because I know you had some challenges with your engineering in how this rolled out? And so really keen to share your learnings about that and how that played out for you.

Cindy
Yeah, sure. Just another point on those balconies before I do that, I think the concrete is also giving us a lot more structural integrity, given we’ve got a rooftop terrace. So we’ve essentially got a three level house, even though there’s only two levels internally. So, I think there’s a lot of that going on. In retrospect, for me as a designer, though, I think if I ever did it this way, I would probably step back that top level so that the concrete didn’t have to turn around and come in underneath that top floor wall, because that was the biggest thing that we had to wait for, is because it actually formed part of that external wall upstairs. That’s what prevented it from…

Amelia Lee
The timetable to the sequencing of things.

Cindy
Yeah. But in terms of the engineering, it’s really challenging. Our engineer is incredibly talented. He’s a very good engineer. But as most engineers we have up here, they are inundated with work. We don’t have enough of them. If there’s any engineers out there that actually want to move up to Port Macquarie, please feel free. Yeah, they do a lot of work. I found it really challenging to find someone that had the time to consult during the design phase. Even though I was able to ask lots of questions and that kind of stuff during the design phase, capturing all of that in preliminary design plans from an engineer, that was the challenging part. And so then, once we got to the construction certificate, and we needed the final engineering plans, it was just all thrown into that. And there was a lot of things that were missed. So a lot of conversations that we’d had previously during the design phase just got totally missed in those final plans. So I was doing a lot of checking of the plans and reminding them of conversations that we’d had, and marking up changes and all that kind of thing. So there’s a lot of that going on. And I’m not confident that all of that got captured in the end anyway. 

Concrete decks [SOURCE]

Which then meant, on site, when we got to doing the back ends and things like that, we were still tossing around ideas and changes at that stage. So, getting all of that down on paper from the engineer took time, which meant that our concreters couldn’t do anything until they had those plans. It’s just a flow and effect, which meant we couldn’t have our roof on blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, it was just that flow on effect. So, I honestly don’t know how I could have done it differently. I was aware of needing to push for those plans early on. But yeah, it was hard. It was really hard.

Amelia Lee
Yeah, I don’t know how you could have done it differently. I mean, it’s a challenge, isn’t it, when you’re doing a project in an area like yours, where an engineer has to come out to site and inspect things. So you do need somebody who is fairly local, or you work with them remotely, and then know that you have the cost of them flying in to inspect the site. And it’s tricky, too, isn’t it, because I find that builders can’t always necessarily give an engineer a significant amount of notice that the project’s going to be ready for inspection at a particular point in time, because it can be weather dependent and all of that kind of stuff. And so, you then do become a bit beholden to the organisation skills and the workload of the consultant that you’re working with. 

What I really observed during that time with you though, that you were staying proactive. We talk about the squeaky wheel gets the oil inside HOME Method and how to be proactive in following up and overcoming that feeling of being a nag, but remembering that you need to be an advocate for your project, and that there are on flow impacts of people not doing the things that they say that they’re going to do when they’re going to do them. 

So, I think it was really great to see how you stepped into, “Look, we need to get this done. This isn’t personal. I just need to make sure that this is right.” And you were also filling the gaps as much as you could. At the end of the day, you’re essentially project managing this. So you were filling the gaps in terms of coordinating stuff and doing those things of checking the drawings and highlighting, and pulling in the expertise where you needed to. So I thought you did a really great job. I know that you were stressed during that time, but you were still managing your stress really, really well, and you weren’t letting it derail your project or yourself. And you were still there and also working on other things. You were making other selections and using the downtime productively. So that was really great to see as well. So, I think you should give yourself a big pat on the back. Because, like I said, it was what it was.

Cindy
It was what it was.

Amelia Lee
And it’s happening more and more in this industry because we’re seeing that there’s just not enough people to do the work that needs to be done. And everybody is really, really busy, and not everybody’s fantastic with their professional organisation skills and workflow either. So, yeah. It’s challenging, isn’t it, because you’re sitting there going, “If only, we would have been here, we would have done this.” And you’re torturing yourself for all of the what ifs based on that timeline. And at the end of the day, there’s just some things that can’t be helped and you can’t control. You can’t control the weather. It could have equally been dry the entire time, and you probably would have had a layer of stress and frustration that just wouldn’t have been there. So, this is the thing we’re building on site projects, so unique to that site, to whatever’s going on in the world, in the weather, all of that kind of thing. But I was so impressed with how you maintained your sanity through that.

Cindy
Thank you so much. And I’m totally fine with being a nag. And I’ve said that upfront with them. If I’ve got people that are reluctant to get back to me on things, I’m like, “Look, I’m going to nag you every single day until you get back to me and we get this sorted. So the sooner we do that, the less likely you’re going to hear my voice every day.”

Amelia Lee
Do us both a favour.

Cindy
Yeah, takes me five seconds to call you, so I’ll do that every day until I don’t have to anymore.

Amelia Lee
It’s really interesting, isn’t it, I mean, we see in HOME Method, members will comment, “Oh, I’ve chosen this architect for all of these reasons. They did everything that they were supposed to in the fee proposal stage. I really love the design work that they’ve come up with, but I can tell that they’re really busy and they’re not very good at replying to my emails, so I now schedule a weekly call to them.” And it’s like, gosh, you wish it didn’t have to be like that. And then at the same time, sometimes it is, and knowing that that’s the way that you have to work with this person is better than you going, “Well, this sucks, and I don’t want to have to do this.” 

I’ve had people on the other side who’ve contacted me and they haven’t heard from somebody for months, and they’ve done nothing about it because they’ve been too nervous or haven’t known what to say, and they hadn’t known what they should expect, and so months have gone by, and it’s not that they’re just back to square one, they’re even worse off. So, yeah, I think that the thing that you knew, you knew what you needed to expect, you knew what the process should be, and how it should look. And then because of the knowledge and research that you’ve done, that was the place that you operated from. So I thought it was really cool. 

Now, the other thing that I think has been really interesting about your project is like you said, you’ve got a builder who is open and receptive and working really well with you in the level of communication and collaboration, which is really awesome. That just, I think, underpins a really great foundation for a great project. Because when you’re working with somebody who is like that, and then is solutions oriented, it does just make the custom process of coming up against hiccups and hurdles a lot easier to contend with. Of course, though, you’ve had particular things that you’ve wanted to do from a sustainability and a longevity and a condensation management point of view, and you’ve got a builder that isn’t necessarily experienced in doing all of those things, which I know lots of people in the industry are experiencing because we’ve had such a massive exponential uptick in everybody needing to upskill for what we’ve been learning about how buildings perform. Can you talk me through how some of those decisions that you’ve made about the detailing and the materials and the construction of your home, how you then navigated that with a team that haven’t necessarily done this before to make sure that you’re still getting a good outcome?

RESOURCES

Cindy’s Project Instagram Account >>> https://www.instagram.com/shindysbeachhouse_build/ 

Cindy’s previous project updates:

• Episode 321 ‘A New Home Build with Family and Sustainability in Mind, with Cindy’ >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/podcast-a-new-home-build-with-family-and-sustainability/ 
• Episode 322 ‘Choosing Materials when Building a Sustainable Home, with Cindy’ >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/podcast-choosing-materials-when-building-a-sustainable-home/ 

Access the support and guidance you need (like Cindy did) to be confident and empowered when renovating and building your family home inside my flagship online program, HOME METHOD >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/courses/the-home-method/

Learn more about how to interview and select the right builder with the Choose Your Builder mini-course >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/courses/choose-your-builder 

Access my free online workshop “Your Project Plan” >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/projectplan